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  Play ... Latest Forum Posts > Chess Forums > Chess - General discussion
  My usual black opening moves against 1.e4




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Nodak

Chess rating: 1393



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United States
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Sun May 6 2018 4:27PM | MsgID: 19784455


When playing Caro-Kann this is ideal for me because it allows both bishops to control open diagonals after black pushes the king pawn in the next move.



[[1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5]]

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HAGEVIER

Chess rating: 2343 Fide 2048
LCF 1918






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Austria
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Sun Apr 1 2018 5:49PM | MsgID: 19783277


1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5 3.dxe5. I would scream, oh no i lost a pawn. I win no tempo. the center dominates white. I defend d5. white controls more of the board (no nf6, nc6, nd7, bc8 can not .move.).
b5, and I hope I can control c4 permanently (a6 Bb7). according to Na6 Nc7 Ne6, the position stops attacks on f7 and keep jumpers away from g5 d4.my attack Qc7, Ne7 Ng6 (hope the h5 does not get too weak if h4) .I win the pawn back or wait and search weak fields in the white camp ( dreamer but surprise).
other. g6 Bg7 c6 d5. It's very easy to win back the pawn, if white c4, e4, Nc3,cd. If white occupies the center with d4 e5. So the Bg7 is strong in the end game. white places the Bc1 on d4 (c5 cxd4) after Nc6xBd4 not cd but Nf3xNd4. Nd4 dominates and the Bg7 has more difficulty. White does not find the right moves, Black plays rock in the 5 ranks. (a5 or c5). now there are many ways to sacrifice on e5 or d4 and disorder the center to play Rh5 Qh4 N or B e5, you should always have in mind.
(of course c5 Nc6 Nh6 and Nf5 or f6). if white attack on the kingside f4 h4 you have to castle queenside.







Reyn

Chess rating: 1339



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Canada
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Sat Mar 31 2018 4:36PM | MsgID: 19783235


Originally posted by: "bwzins64"
... Reyn, you might want to try this, if you haven't already. It starts out [1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3 d5] or [1.e4 d6 2.d4 g6 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3 d5]. ...



Honestly, I don't like Game #2 at all, but #1 has possibilites. I would probably play something more like this:

[[1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 d6 4.Be3 c5]]

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bwzins64

Chess rating: 2261





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United States
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Sat Mar 31 2018 8:10AM | MsgID: 19783222


Originally posted by: "SCHACHMATT1"
When I learned about chess (and to some extent still) I avoided 1... e5 as well cause I was lazy to learn any theory and rather played the opponent's ability than their memory.




I think that's a good strategy. It's funny, because I started out playing a Modern/Caro-Kann hybrid called the Gurgenidze. Soltis wrote a small book about it, which was what got me started with it. It had a pink cover; with an ugly green knight on the front. Reyn, you might want to try this, if you haven't already. It starts out [[1.e4 g6 2.d4 Bg7 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3 d5]] or [[1.e4 d6 2.d4 g6 3.Nc3 c6 4.Be3 d5]]. I liked it, but it was always an uphill fight. So, I started playing defenses that fought for the center right from move one. Like you with 1...e5, I detested the Sicilian before learning it, because I didn't want to be a sheep just following the rest of the flock. But now, I love it. The positions are unbalanced, and you get a lot of interesting play because of it.

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Reyn

Chess rating: 1339



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Canada
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Fri Mar 30 2018 7:25PM | MsgID: 19783211


Sorry, but I find 1. ... e5 boring, and leads to fairly predictable opening moves on the part of your opponent.

But, each to their own. I'm just a patzer here, I'm probably wrong.







SCHACHMATT1

Chess rating: 2368





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Kiribati
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Fri Mar 30 2018 7:22AM | MsgID: 19783206


When I learned about chess (and to some extent still) I avoided 1... e5 as well cause I was lazy to learn any theory and rather played the opponent's ability than their memory. I actually started out playing Pirc like positions against almost anything that White played.
But with increasing skill I have started to like 1. .. e5 a lot. Sometimes you may end up in theoretical Spanish lines (but since we are not GM level I feel like you can actually get the grasp of most of them after a while), and often you just get opponents that will choose some of the many other interesting openings to play after 1.e4 1. .. e5 which leads to many interesting games. Even though sometimes you just get badly beaten, I have realised that this is more fun for me.

Moral of the story: Do not just dismiss moves. Preferences change







Reyn

Chess rating: 1339



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Canada
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Fri Mar 23 2018 3:23AM | MsgID: 19782917


Originally posted by: "R_De_Siota"
I've played 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d6 many times.



I don't like this variation, as many times, white will move 3.e5, a position I loath.

I'll look at the other variations - thanks.


--------------------------------

[[1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5]]

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R_De_Siota

Chess rating: 1494





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United States
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Wed Mar 21 2018 5:30PM | edited: 5:40:57 | MsgID: 19782862


I've played 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d6 many times. It generally gets lumped in with the B10 ECO code--the Caro-Kann--although it's more likely to transpose into something better classified in the A40 or E90 category eventually. "Lowe's Opening" begins 1.d4 c6, generally followed up with either 2.c4 d6 or 2.e4 d6. The flexibility enables one to branch out into everything from the Philidor to the Old Indian to the King's Indian to the Pirc.

If you don't mind cramped spaces and careful maneuvering, you may wish to give it a try. Timing is extremely important. K had a quick and lethal breakthrough against me in a recent game (Game 10848912) when I zigged instead of zagged. I think it started as 1.e4 d6 2.d4 g6, and ...c6 soon followed. Supposedly it's the "Pillsbury Defense", but I can't find a single game where Pillsbury played either side of it.

Good luck and good chess!







Reyn

Chess rating: 1339



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Canada
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Sun Mar 18 2018 7:54PM | edited: 7:57:43 | MsgID: 19782799


Originally posted by: "bwzins64"
... So to sum up, if you're just using it for casual play against similarly rated opposition; and you're having fun...go with it until you're no longer happy with it. Why not? Unless you're paying big bucks to a chess coach, don't worry about what other people might say. If we were all the same, life would be boring as h*ll.



I like your attitude in the above. I'm pretty casual with my chess. Sometimes I just like to try different things, so games don't get stale. Openings moves really aren't my favourite part of the game. It's the middle and endings that are most fun for me.

I'll say this much for Game #2 below, it sure changes the game for the opponent on what they originally intended. Yeah, you're down 2 pawns, but so what?

-------------------------------------

[[1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5 3.dxe5 Qa5+ 4.Nc3 Qxe5 5.Nf3]]

[[1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5 3.dxe5 d5]]

[[1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5 3.dxe5 Qa5+ 4.Nc3 Qxe5 5.Nf3]]

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Playable game #2


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bwzins64

Chess rating: 2261





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Sun Mar 18 2018 3:05AM | MsgID: 19782784


Originally posted by: "Reyn"
Hi Brian, thanks for replying again!

Yes, I have tried the Caro-Kann (actually one of the very few openings I know by name!). I'm not a big fan of it. Inevitably, the position in the below replayable Game 1 happens, which I loath.

Out of curiousity, what's your opinion of the position in Game 2? I have tried this from time to time, sacrificing a pawn, to destablise white's opening moves.

Does it have its own name, or is it a variation of something else?




After 1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5, I would say that at least you're fighting for the center. After searching for this position, the vast majority of games I found were labeled B12: Caro-Kann Advance Variation; with a few C21: Danish Gambits' sprinkled in, which I thought was interesting. I also searched for games that started 1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5 3.dxe5 Qa5+ 4.Nc3 Qxe5 5.Nf3, and most of those too were categorized as Caro-Kann Advances. Also, White was winning about 93% of the games. I also looked up 1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5 3.dxe5 d5, but only found 2 games. Both were losses for Black. But I'd like to point out that in most of these games, White was a much higher rated player, who knew how to take advantage of Black's less than accurate play. It's not surprising that in the mainlines the stronger player usually wins, so why would that be any different in this opening? Plus, if this an opening you're much more familiar with than your opponent, you're probably going to outplay him/her. I've read several books where the authors makes this point, so it's not only me saying it. The moves 1.e4 c6 2.d4 e5 3.dxe5 Qa5+ 4.Nc3 Qxe5 5.Nf3 remind me somewhat of the Scandinavian Variation, and it's less than correct play also, but it does score points. So to sum up, if you're just using it for casual play against similarly rated opposition; and you're having fun...go with it until you're no longer happy with it. Why not? Unless you're paying big bucks to a chess coach, don't worry about what other people might say. If we were all the same, life would be boring as h*ll.







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