JohnL
United States
|  8/8/2004 10:10:17 PM | MsgID: 890975
47.fxg5 instead of 47.Kxg5 allows the white K to move over to take the a-pawn and then come back to help the B block the h-pawn. This shows how running computer lines doesn't always come up with the best move. gmueller might have a win for black after 47.fxg5, but zsoyd's idea of ..Ng6 to get the N over to help the a-pawn seems to be the only way to win, because the white B covers a lot of ground.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0–0 Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.dxe5 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Be7 11.Bc2 0–0 12.Re1 d4 13.cxd4 Nxd4 14.Nxd4 Qxd4 15.Nf3 Qxd1 16.Rxd1 Bg4 17.Be3 Rad8 18.h3 Bxf3 19.gxf3 Ne6 20.f4 c5 21.Be4 g6 22.Bb7 a5 23.a4 Rxd1+ 24.Rxd1 bxa4 25.Rd7 Bh4 26.Bc6 Rb8 27.Ra7 Bd8 28.Rb7 Rxb7 29.Bxb7 g5 30.f5 Ng7 31.Bxc5 Nxf5 32.Be4 Ng7 33.Bc2 Ne6 34.Bd6 Nf4 35.Kh2 Bb6 36.Kg3 Bd4 37.Bxa4 Bxb2 38.h4 Nd3 39.hxg5 Bxe5+ 40.Bxe5 Nxe5 41.Bb5 f6 42.f4 Nf7 43.Kh4 Kg7 44.Kg4 Nd6 45.Bc6 Nc4 46.Kf5 fxg5
47.fxg5 Nb2 48.Bd5 a4 49.Ke5 a3 50.Kd4 Nd1 51.Kd3 Kg6 52.Kd2 Nf2 53.Kc3 Kxg5 54.Bf7 Ne4+ 55.Kb3 Nd6 56.Bd5 h5 57.Kxa3 Kf4 58.Kb3 h4 59.Kc3 Ke3 60.Be6 Ne4+ 61.Kc4 Nd2+ 62.Kd5 Ne4 63.Kc4 Nf2 64.Bc8 Nd3 65.Kd5 Kf4 66.Kd4 Ne5 67.Be6 Ng4 68.Kd3 h3 69.Ke2 h2 70.Bd5 Kg3 71.Bc6 Ne5 72.Bd5 Ng6 73.Kf1 Nh4 74.Bh1 Nf5 75.Ke2 Nd4+ 76.Ke3 Nf5+ 77.Ke2 Ne7 ((and the pawn can't get through))
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gmueller
Germany
| 8/8/2004 6:30:34 PM | edited:8/8/2004 9:20:18 PM | MsgID: 890293
From: JohnL
Country: United States
Date posted: 8/7/2004 9:05:06 AM
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I tried to post this last night, but couldn't get through.
I agree with zsoyd's idea that the black N needs to get to the Q-side as soon as possible to help advance the a-pawn. This line shows how white can exchange both K-side pawns and draw:
draw with 41..f6: - NO - !! I think search in endgame without installed TBS is of low rank for horizon
46.Kf5 forces a pawn exchange.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0–0 Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.dxe5 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Be7 11.Bc2 0–0 12.Re1 d4 13.cxd4 Nxd4 14.Nxd4 Qxd4 15.Nf3 Qxd1 16.Rxd1 Bg4 17.Be3 Rad8 18.h3 Bxf3 19.gxf3 Ne6 20.f4 c5 21.Be4 g6 22.Bb7 a5 23.a4 Rxd1+ 24.Rxd1 bxa4 25.Rd7 Bh4 26.Bc6 Rb8 27.Ra7 Bd8 28.Rb7 Rxb7 29.Bxb7 g5 30.f5 Ng7 31.Bxc5 Nxf5 32.Be4 Ng7 33.Bc2 Ne6 34.Bd6 Nf4 35.Kh2 Bb6 36.Kg3 Bd4 37.Bxa4 Bxb2 38.h4 Nd3 39.hxg5 Bxe5+ 40.Bxe5 Nxe5 41.Bb5
f6 42.f4 Nf7 43.Kh4 Kg7 44.Kg4 Nd6 45.Bc6 Nc4 46.Kf5 fxg5 47.Kxg5 h6+ 48.Kh5 and now ....48...Ne3 ! not 48...Nb6 ?
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LorinDCosta - RoW,
8/6k1/2B4p/p6K/2n2P2/8/8/8 b - - 0 1
Analysis by Fritz 8: with all TBS 5-4-3 men
1. -+ (-1.78): 48...Ne3
2. -+ (-1.78): 48...Nd6
3. = (-0.06): 48...Na3
4. = (-0.03): 48...Nb6
5. = (-0.03): 48...Nb2
(Müller, MyTown 08.08.2004)
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Nb6 49.f5 Kf7 50.Kxh6 Kf6 51.Kh5 Kxf5 52.Kh4 (is draw ! TBS)
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[[1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. d4 b5 7. Bb3 d5 8. dxe5
Be6 9. Nbd2 Nc5 10. c3 Be7 11. Bc2 O-O 12. Re1 d4 13. cxd4 Nxd4 14. Nxd4 Qxd4
15. Nf3 Qxd1 16. Rxd1 Bg4 17. Be3 Rad8 18. h3 Bxf3 19. gxf3 Ne6 20. f4 c5 21.
Be4 g6 22. Bb7 a5 23. a4 Rxd1+ 24. Rxd1 bxa4 25. Rd7 Bh4 26. Bc6 Rb8 27. Ra7
Bd8 28. Rb7 Rxb7 29. Bxb7 g5 30. f5 Ng7 31. Bxc5 Nxf5 32. Be4 Ng7 33. Bc2 Ne6
34. Bd6 Nf4 35. Kh2 Bb6 36. Kg3 Bd4 37. Bxa4 Bxb2 38. h4 Nd3 39. hxg5 Bxe5+ 40.
Bxe5 Nxe5
41. Bb5 f6
42. f4 Nf7 43. Kh4 Kg7 44. Kg4 Nd6 45. Bc6 Nc4 46. Kf5 fxg5 47. Kxg5 h6+ 48. Kh5
48...Ne3
49. Ba4 Nd5 50. f5 Nf6+ 51. Kh4 Kf7 52. Bb3+ Ke7
53. Kg3 Ne8 54. Ba4 Nd6 55. Bc2 Kf6 56. Kg4 Ke5 57. Ba4 Nxf5 58. Kh5 Kd5 59.
Kg6 Nd4 60. Kh5 Kc5 61. Be8 Nc6 62. Bg6 Kb4 63. Bc2 Nd4 64. Bd1 Nb3 65. Bf3 a4
66. Be4 Kc3 67. Bb1 Kb2 68. Bd3 a3 69. Kg6 a2 70. Kg7 h5 71. Bf5 a1=Q 0-1 ]]
[[1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. d4 b5 7. Bb3 d5 8. dxe5
Be6 9. Nbd2 Nc5 10. c3 Be7 11. Bc2 O-O 12. Re1 d4 13. cxd4 Nxd4 14. Nxd4 Qxd4
15. Nf3 Qxd1 16. Rxd1 Bg4 17. Be3 Rad8 18. h3 Bxf3 19. gxf3 Ne6 20. f4 c5 21.
Be4 g6 22. Bb7 a5 23. a4 Rxd1+ 24. Rxd1 bxa4 25. Rd7 Bh4 26. Bc6 Rb8 27. Ra7
Bd8 28. Rb7 Rxb7 29. Bxb7 g5 30. f5 Ng7 31. Bxc5 Nxf5 32. Be4 Ng7 33. Bc2 Ne6
34. Bd6 Nf4 35. Kh2 Bb6 36. Kg3 Bd4 37. Bxa4 Bxb2 38. h4 Nd3 39. hxg5 Bxe5+ 40.
Bxe5 Nxe5
41. Bb5 f6
42. f4 Nf7 43. Kh4 Kg7 44. Kg4 Nd6 45. Bc6 Nc4 46. Kf5
fxg5 47. Kxg5 h6+
48. Kh5 Ne3
49. Kh4 Nf5+ 50. Kg4 Nd4 51. Be8 Ne6 52. Kf5 Kf8
53. Bd7 Nc5 54. Bb5 Kg7 55. Ke5 a4 56. f5 a3 57. f6+ Kf8 58. Bc4 h5 59. Kf4 Nd7
60. f7 h4 61. Bd5 Ke7 62. Ke3 h3 63. Kf2 Ne5 64. Kg1 Nxf7 65. Kh2 Ne5 66. Ba2
Kd6 67. Kh1 h2 68. Bb3 Nd3 69. Ba2 Nf2+ 70. Kxh2 Ke5 71. Kg3 Nd3 72. Kf3 Kd4
73. Bb1 Nc1 74. Kf2 Kc3 75. Ke3 Kb2 76. Be4 a2 77. Bd5 a1=Q 78. Be4 Qa5 79. Kf4
Ne2+ 80. Kf3 Qe5 81. Bd3 Nd4+ 82. Kg4 Kc3 83. Bg6 Kd2 84. Bb1 Ke3 85. Kh3 Kf3
86. Be4+ Qxe4 87. Kh2 Ne2 88. Kh1 Qh7# 0-1]]
MfG
Günter
Playable game scores in this posting
Playable game #1
Playable game #2
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BMcC
United States
| 8/8/2004 12:20:03 AM | edited:8/8/2004 12:21:22 AM | MsgID: 888586
Good work team, Ng6 has snuck in front of Kg7 with 20 hrs to go. If only the Thaler crowd could respond so well.
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Dibbellabbes
 
Germany
| 8/7/2004 8:09:27 PM | edited:8/7/2004 8:28:31 PM | MsgID: 888006
Hi Everybody,
I changed my vote again to Ng6 because of the Kg7 voters. At the moment it seems that Ng6 has better chances than f6 to beat Kg7. It would really be a pity if one half of voters who like to play for a win voted for f6 and the other half voted for Ng6 and the Kg7 voters were happy with the draw.
Best regards
Dibbellabbes
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BMcC
United States
| 8/7/2004 5:25:56 PM | edited:8/7/2004 5:30:18 PM | MsgID: 887607
I have not had time to look at all the details here but it seems to me to be an easy win without computer help. Kg7 has no value but will be played unless this feud is settled soon. After Ng6 we can reach the aid of our pawn 1 move ahead of the king, this advance leaves the other pawns free for the picking.
I don't think pleading will work here. If the Kg7 voters were paying any attention they would see how destructive that move is to the winning attempt. It appeared we were losing badly at some point in this game. A draw isn't the worst result. I voted Ng6 and am sticking with it because I can see a win no one has refuted. People who changed to f6 were likely following the board carefully. Ng6 voters may only be players smart enough to count and not play Kg7. As I see it, this f6 crowd needs to make 1 more shift for the team. Pleading for a pawn sac with people who voted Kg7 is not logical. We need to beat this move by any means necessary, even skipping a forced tablebase win.
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JohnL
United States
| 8/7/2004 9:05:06 AM | MsgID: 872686
hi Bro. Rick:
I tried to post this last night, but couldn't get through.
I agree with zsoyd's idea that the black N needs to get to the Q-side as soon as possible to help advance the a-pawn. This line shows how white can exchange both K-side pawns and draw:
possible draw with 41..f6:
46.Kf5 forces a pawn exchange.
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0–0 Nxe4 6.d4 b5 7.Bb3 d5 8.dxe5 Be6 9.Nbd2 Nc5 10.c3 Be7 11.Bc2 0–0 12.Re1 d4 13.cxd4 Nxd4 14.Nxd4 Qxd4 15.Nf3 Qxd1 16.Rxd1 Bg4 17.Be3 Rad8 18.h3 Bxf3 19.gxf3 Ne6 20.f4 c5 21.Be4 g6 22.Bb7 a5 23.a4 Rxd1+ 24.Rxd1 bxa4 25.Rd7 Bh4 26.Bc6 Rb8 27.Ra7 Bd8 28.Rb7 Rxb7 29.Bxb7 g5 30.f5 Ng7 31.Bxc5 Nxf5 32.Be4 Ng7 33.Bc2 Ne6 34.Bd6 Nf4 35.Kh2 Bb6 36.Kg3 Bd4 37.Bxa4 Bxb2 38.h4 Nd3 39.hxg5 Bxe5+ 40.Bxe5 Nxe5 41.Bb5
f6 42.f4 Nf7 43.Kh4 Kg7 44.Kg4 Nd6 45.Bc6 Nc4 46.Kf5 fxg5 47.Kxg5 h6+ 48.Kh5 Nb6 49.f5 Kf7 50.Kxh6 Kf6 51.Kh5 Kxf5 52.Kh4 (draw?)
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Bro. Rick
United States
| 8/6/2004 6:35:52 PM | MsgID: 871220
Hi Team, I looked over gmueller's analysis deeply and all my tries for White seem to lose. It truly looks liike a FORCED WIN!!!
Regards, Bro. Rick
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