doctork
Chess rating: 2644 Fide 2024
LCF 2024
 
United States
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Chess goodies: 11 |  2/2/2010 3:51:11 PM | MsgID: 12656562
[Quote from: "AstroKnight"]| [Quote from: "Sockeye Charlie"]My question is this: comparatively, why is d6 so much weaker (or, conversely, why is Nc6 so much stronger)? Thanks in advance |
I don't believe 2...Nc6 actually is stronger than 2...d6 or 2...Nf6. The statistics for results with each move are virtually tied, and even most strong chess programs rate all three moves within one or two tenths of a pawn in strength of one another. This is because everything depends on how you follow these moves up. As late as the 1840s, there was a debate regarding whether or not 2...d6 or 2...Nc6 were stronger. Staunton came down in favor of 2...Nc6, and fashion has been with him on that call ever since.
There are people who try to say 2...Nc6 is objectively stronger, and they try to supply reasons to justify their preconception. One of the most laughable is the objection that 2...d6 blocks in Black's King Bishop. Many authors stop there, considering their case proven, and recommend the closed Ruy Lopez in its place. However, the main line of the closed Ruy Lopez, which is the most popular variation for Black, blocks this very same Bishop on to the very same square in exactly the same manner, only it's done a few moves later. This is supposed to make a difference somehow. No one ever explains how though, because in actuality it doesn't.
In most of my current games I am playing the Hanham Variation of the Philidor Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7). However, I prefer the Pirc move order because I get more Hanhams when I use it, and I avoid the King's Gambit, Scotch, Danish Gambit, Ponziani, and Vienna Opening that way. I mean, after 1.e4 d6, I always see 2.d4, and then after Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7 I have reached my Hanham variation.
I reach the Hanham Variation of Philidor's Defense in about 90 percent of the games where White begins with 1.e4. Who do you think knows more about the Hanham, White, who thought he was playing a Pirc up until last move, or me, who gets to play the Hanham in about 30% of all my games? |
Well said AstroKnight. I hope we get a change of heart from the voters and end up
with 2...d6. I must admit that I have committed the "sin" of telling students that the f8-bishop is unhappy with 2...d6, but only beginners. These same
beginners are shown early ...Bc5 lines in the Spanish, not the Zaitsev and other
ultra-sophisticated systems in the Closed Varation.
Cheers!
|
AstroKnight
Chess rating: 1556
LCF 1800
United States
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Chess goodies: 2 | 2/2/2010 5:27:55 AM | edited:2/2/2010 5:29:47 AM | MsgID: 12654803
Originally posted by: "Sockeye Charlie"
My question is this: comparatively, why is d6 so much weaker (or, conversely, why is Nc6 so much stronger)? Thanks in advance |
I don't believe 2...Nc6 actually is stronger than 2...d6 or 2...Nf6. The statistics for results with each move are virtually tied, and even most strong chess programs rate all three moves within one or two tenths of a pawn in strength of one another. This is because everything depends on how you follow these moves up. As late as the 1840s, there was a debate regarding whether or not 2...d6 or 2...Nc6 were stronger. Staunton came down in favor of 2...Nc6, and fashion has been with him on that call ever since.
There are people who try to say 2...Nc6 is objectively stronger, and they try to supply reasons to justify their preconception. One of the most laughable is the objection that 2...d6 blocks in Black's King Bishop. Many authors stop there, considering their case proven, and recommend the closed Ruy Lopez in its place. However, the main line of the closed Ruy Lopez, which is the most popular variation for Black, blocks this very same Bishop on to the very same square in exactly the same manner, only it's done a few moves later. This is supposed to make a difference somehow. No one ever explains how though, because in actuality it doesn't.
In most of my current games I am playing the Hanham Variation of the Philidor Defense (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Nbd7). However, I prefer the Pirc move order because I get more Hanhams when I use it, and I avoid the King's Gambit, Scotch, Danish Gambit, Ponziani, and Vienna Opening that way. I mean, after 1.e4 d6, I always see 2.d4, and then after Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nbd7 I have reached my Hanham variation.
I reach the Hanham Variation of Philidor's Defense in about 90 percent of the games where White begins with 1.e4. Who do you think knows more about the Hanham, White, who thought he was playing a Pirc up until last move, or me, who gets to play the Hanham in about 30% of all my games?
|
Sockeye Charlie
Chess rating: 1689
United States
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| 2/2/2010 4:02:21 AM | MsgID: 12654661
I see that Nc6 draws four times the number of votes compared to d6, and it looks to me as though the majority have cast that way because of database stats. OK, I respect that, but as a decidedly low-intermediate player, the reason I participate in the ROW games is to learn; I can look up the stats as well as the next, and do so occasionally, and use the winningest without really understanding the underlying reasoning. So, my question is this: comparatively, why is d6 so much weaker (or, conversely, why is Nc6 so much stronger)?
Thanks in advance
|
doctork
Chess rating: 2644 Fide 2024
LCF 2024
United States
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Chess goodies: 11 | 2/1/2010 7:44:47 PM | MsgID: 12652901
[Quote from: "kluto"][Quote from: "Duke of Wellington"]
Agreed. Nc6 is the move i'm most comfortable with. |
Sire,we are in battle. Forget ye not the pair of ferocious lions
so emblematic of the arms of the Duke of Wellington. It is not
the time to settle down with a shag and a pint and watch Britains
got Talent.
I frequented quite often the pub named The Duke of Wellington at
Erb Street in Waterloo, Ontario, in which I was a resident for
almost four years (the town, not the pub itself). It is a good
place (meaning the pub itself, not the town) to sit comfortably,
remeniscing about past glory while inhaling a couple of mooseheads.
I wish that you were there sitting comfortably now, with feet
resting on a wooden table in front of a crackling fireplace. The
rest of us should prevail and see to it that this battle gets won.
You would not have to move a limb (except to haul in those
mooseheads). |
Lol, this made my day. Best Post Award! 
|
kluto
Chess rating: 2926
South Korea
Give chess goodie
Chess goodies: 5 | 2/1/2010 12:01:13 PM | edited:2/1/2010 12:04:49 PM | MsgID: 12651060
Sire,we are in battle. Forget ye not the pair of ferocious lions
so emblematic of the arms of the Duke of Wellington. It is not
the time to settle down with a shag and a pint and watch Britains
got Talent.
I frequented quite often the pub named The Duke of Wellington at
Erb Street in Waterloo, Ontario, in which I was a resident for
almost four years (the town, not the pub itself). It is a good
place (meaning the pub itself, not the town) to sit comfortably,
remeniscing about past glory while inhaling a couple of mooseheads.
I wish that you were there sitting comfortably now, with feet
resting on a wooden table in front of a crackling fireplace. The
rest of us should prevail and see to it that this battle gets won.
You would not have to move a limb (except to haul in those
mooseheads).
|
|
) 
